tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1838547379300595751.post7307646558130375047..comments2024-02-23T20:59:03.904-08:00Comments on Marine Corps Gazette Blog: 500 Words or LessMarine Corps Gazettehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15125728369326612980noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1838547379300595751.post-91716750988450769742012-01-01T07:09:52.419-08:002012-01-01T07:09:52.419-08:00Anon Dec 27, 1005,
If you are going to condescend ...Anon Dec 27, 1005,<br />If you are going to condescend the author from a position of supposed seniority, at least have the courage to post under your own name.Peter J. Munsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11533468249593825982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1838547379300595751.post-33714212415695873052011-12-29T11:24:52.203-08:002011-12-29T11:24:52.203-08:00All, here is a link to the SWJ/SWC thread on the M...All, here is a link to the SWJ/SWC thread on the Maneuver Warfare Handbook by Bill Lind that I started a while back. In the thread you will see Polarbear1605 who is a retired Marine officer who placed a tape recorder at one of Boyd's presentations to a small group of Marine officers. The tapes have been converted to CD's and cost about $30.00. You can find ordering information by looking Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1838547379300595751.post-61822344595753116552011-12-29T08:10:07.413-08:002011-12-29T08:10:07.413-08:00Anonymous,
I have not, though I would welcome the...<b>Anonymous,</b><br /><br />I have not, though I would welcome the opportunity.Joseph Mazzarahttp://mcgazette.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1838547379300595751.post-85848900890463988002011-12-29T08:02:51.433-08:002011-12-29T08:02:51.433-08:00As one of the authors of The Attritionist Letters,...As one of the authors of The Attritionist Letters, I can assure you - it was calling attention to the fact that we still operate in a 2nd Generational System and we are fighting against a 4th Generational advesary. <br /><br />2nd Generation: tactics of linear fire and movement, with reliance on indirect fire. This type of warfare can be seen the early stages of WWI, where there was still strictAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1838547379300595751.post-64374504220094987122011-12-29T07:45:17.392-08:002011-12-29T07:45:17.392-08:00Slapout,
Where can one find the Polar Bear Tapes?...Slapout,<br /><br />Where can one find the Polar Bear Tapes? I couldn't agree more with you on Boyd. I have practically applied his theories here in Afghanistan and am now convinced that he wasn't just in the ball park - he was dead on!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1838547379300595751.post-71364150416548084152011-12-29T00:48:34.925-08:002011-12-29T00:48:34.925-08:00I have a better theory or rather after doing a lot...I have a better theory or rather after doing a lot of investigation you guys should listen to the Polar Bear Tapes. These were actual recordings of Colonel Boyd speaking to Marines about his theory and after hearing them myself I am convinced that Boyd had a very differnat concept of Warfighting as opposed to what Lind and others have said he meant. The Boyd Theory of Warfighting has never trultyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1838547379300595751.post-63067445999569279032011-12-28T21:06:34.639-08:002011-12-28T21:06:34.639-08:00Maj Thiele,
Sir, the application of a qualitative...Maj Thiele,<br /><br />Sir, the application of a qualitative dialectic shift to our understanding of developments in warfighting is exactly what I am arguing against.<br /><br />I've read "The Breaking Point," and "Stormtroop Tactics," neither affect my opinion that framing our study of war within a 'qualitiative dialectic' will lead to defeatism, and that it Joseph Mazzarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16691057085434760180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1838547379300595751.post-83458234022954645452011-12-28T20:53:09.801-08:002011-12-28T20:53:09.801-08:00Joe,
The Generations framework identifies a quali...Joe,<br /><br />The Generations framework identifies a qualitative dialectical shift in war. Some of the factors you mention (technology, industry,etc.) are simply tools. A 2d or 3d generation military will need these things although how they are used by each will differ significantly. They do not determine which generation a military belongs to.<br /><br />For instance, the French and GermansGreg Thielenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1838547379300595751.post-35820299519268617672011-12-27T20:03:02.866-08:002011-12-27T20:03:02.866-08:00Maj Thiele,
"If any of those that dislike Mr...<b>Maj Thiele,</b><br /><br /><i>"If any of those that dislike Mr. Lind's framework can suggest a better one, then they should share it."</i><br /><br />Sir, technical proficiency. Know the capabilities and limits of your technology. Study cases and learn the why behind victory and defeat. <br /><br />Was it logistics? Was it a turn in the wind? Was it technology? Was it industry? Joseph Mazzarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16691057085434760180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1838547379300595751.post-76385394063407151202011-12-27T19:46:02.757-08:002011-12-27T19:46:02.757-08:00Anonymous,
1) Being a company grade officer, I th...<b>Anonymous,</b><br /><br />1) Being a company grade officer, I think the point of contention for most is less that we're a 2nd Generation military and more that we're micromanaged about things like annual training and PTP by a level of command rungs higher than the Battalion and even the Regiment, things that don't fit our mission. There have been several articles on this in the Joseph Mazzarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16691057085434760180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1838547379300595751.post-463741084704984912011-12-27T15:22:17.732-08:002011-12-27T15:22:17.732-08:00Bill Lind's 4 Generations of Modern War is ext...Bill Lind's 4 Generations of Modern War is extremely useful. One element missing from the discussion above is that any understanding of history is "reductionist.". It has to be. The real question is whether it is useful in understanding where we are and where we're going. In this sense, the 4 Generations framework is like a map, which is also a simplified representation of Greg Thielenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1838547379300595751.post-31703038110685543502011-12-27T10:05:46.679-08:002011-12-27T10:05:46.679-08:00Actually, we are a second generational military sy...Actually, we are a second generational military system with a third generational doctrine. That is the point of contention and frustration that our company grade and below intuitively understand now...and continue to highlight in articles like The Attritionist Letters.<br /><br />Mr. Mazzara, that is not quite what generational intellectuals are saying. On the contrary, they are simply trackingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1838547379300595751.post-4420153943082330192011-12-20T19:00:05.802-08:002011-12-20T19:00:05.802-08:00Yes. I we are a third generation military confron...Yes. I we are a third generation military confronting 4GW, in the taxonomy. Many of the features they point out are valid, but I don't like the overall package.Peter J. Munsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11533468249593825982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1838547379300595751.post-28845948036708931092011-12-18T22:12:36.795-08:002011-12-18T22:12:36.795-08:00Marcus Poulin, from my reading of Bill Lind I thin...Marcus Poulin, from my reading of Bill Lind I think he would say and I believe he has said that we do not have a 4th Generation Military. Slapout9Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1838547379300595751.post-23236170112649005912011-12-15T12:33:16.711-08:002011-12-15T12:33:16.711-08:00Absolutely Agreed. Our 4th Generation military was...Absolutely Agreed. Our 4th Generation military was almost defeated in Iraq asymmetrically by the tribal nature of the insurgents. General Keane said we "Came within months to weeks of being defeated" We always must understand and know the enemy. Their cultural history and cultural psychology and how all these many facets will respond militarily to our presence. It is also a lesson Marcus Poulinhttp://www.facebook.com/Methos1914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1838547379300595751.post-3880954731479032222011-12-15T10:19:19.989-08:002011-12-15T10:19:19.989-08:00Additionally, the generations model tends to spin ...Additionally, the generations model tends to spin through numbers like a gas pump ringing up the total these days as every junior pundit wants to make a name by identifying that next generation of adaptation. Concur heartily with your assessment.Peter J. Munsonhttp://peterjmunson.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1838547379300595751.post-28394045013992939562011-12-15T07:19:05.107-08:002011-12-15T07:19:05.107-08:00Hear, hear. The generations model ignores thousand...Hear, hear. The generations model ignores thousands of years of military history in order to shoehorn reality into the construct.B A Friedmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18232905624034481261noreply@blogger.com